Episode 99: Journey Through Trauma with Amanda Quick

In this deeply moving and transformative episode, Autumn Carter sits down with Amanda Quick, an international best-selling author, TEDx speaker, and trauma advocate. Amanda shares her powerful story of overcoming unimaginable challenges, including navigating trauma bonds, manipulation, and a high-conflict divorce involving her ex-husband, a convicted sex offender. Her journey of resilience, healing, and rediscovery is both harrowing and inspiring.

This episode explores the nuances of trauma, from its physical and emotional toll to its impact on relationships and identity. Amanda opens up about her rock-bottom moments, the pivotal experiences that shifted her perspective, and the actions she took to reclaim her life and protect her children. Listeners will gain insight into the healing power of storytelling and the importance of trusting oneself as Amanda recounts how she took control of her narrative and found strength in the face of adversity.

Autumn and Amanda also delve into topics such as recognizing red flags in relationships, the psychological effects of grooming, the societal pressures that keep people stuck, and the role of self-accountability in making empowered choices. With candor and wisdom, Amanda provides actionable advice for anyone navigating trauma or supporting others through similar experiences.

You can enter Amanda's world here: amandaquickhealing.com

and @amandaquickhealing

Please note: This episode contains discussions of sexual and domestic abuse, which may be triggering for some listeners. It also includes occasional explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.

One last thing to cover the show legally. I am a certified life coach giving general advice. So think of this more like a self-help book. This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. I am not a licensed therapist. So this podcast shouldn't be taken as a replacement for professional guidance from my doctor therapist. Or any other qualified expert? If you want personal one-on-one coaching for my certified coach. Go to my website, wellness and every season.com. 

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Transcript

Episode 99: Amanda Quick’s Journey Through Trauma

Introduction and Guest Welcome

Autumn Carter: Hello, welcome to episode 99. 

Welcome to wellness. And every season, the podcast where we explore the rich tapestry of wellness in all its forms. I'm your host, Adam Carter, a certified life coach turned wellness coach, as well as a certified parenting coach, dedicated to empowering others to rediscover their identity and their current season of life. My goal is to help you thrive both as an individual and as a parent.

Hi, I wanted to jump on for one minute. This conversation with Amanda quick has the potential to be triggering because she is talking about sexual abuse. And some domestic abuse. 

Just make sure you breathe through it and realize that this happens in the real world, whether you've experienced it, somebody else it's worth listening to because she very actionable advice in here. So know that you might be triggered. But it's worth it. And there a couple of cuss words in there. 

So you shouldn't be listening to this in the car with kids, I really try to have my podcast be. A little more family friendly in the way that you can listen to it in the car with your kids. But this one is a no because of the topic. And I'm not editing out the cuss words because it now makes it where it's PG 13 or rated R if you're thinking of movies. So definitely keep that in mind. If you're not in a place where you can listen to this alone, skip to the next one. Or skip to one before this. But this is really worth listening to, she has a great TEDx talk that we will, talk about. 

And I also have linked in the show notes. So if now's not the time, at least go to her TEDx talk, it was really good to get needing gritty. I thought it was going to trigger me and it did in small ways. But I expected a big trigger. And the reason why it was only in small ways is because we talked about the actionable advice. So enjoy. And I will see you on the other side.

Today, I'm even more grateful that you're on, Amanda. I have Amanda Quick with me. I remember listening to her TEDx talk. It's on the power of story. Am I saying it right? 

Amanda Quick: The healing power of storytelling. 

Autumn Carter: Thank you for correcting me. It was amazing. So when I came into her world, I was very excited and I was on her podcast. And when we were having our pre podcast, interview together. It was like, I really want you on mine. So here's where it's reciprocated. Now she's on mine. 

Amanda's Background and Mission

Autumn Carter: Let me introduce her further because she is amazing.

She is an international best selling author, TEDx speaker, like I already said, and trauma advocate. Her mission is to empower moms to heal their lives through the transformative power of storytelling.

And the more I'm digging into the outline that I sent her that she filled out, the more excited I am. She has quite the story to tell, so buckle up. This will probably be a little bit longer than normal, and I'm really grateful scheduling wise that I have that extra buffer after, because You're going to want to listen to all this.

This is an amazing story. There's a lot of layers here. So let's just dive into it. So tell me about the trauma advocate part. and your journey and I'll shut up and let you do most of the speaking. Well, thank you. 

Amanda Quick: Welcome. I am very happy to be here as well. My story began before I knew really any about any of these things.

I wasn't in personal development. I wasn't deeply embedded in anything. I was just a mom. I was a stay at home mom. I had three kids. They were young. They were babies. So I was fully in the toddler, preschooler period. My youngest was just over one and my other two were four and almost six. And so, as every mom knows, you're full on in it.

That was my life was being a mom. And my husband at the time worked long hours, but most of the time I was just grateful that We were financially provided for. yes, I wanted to spend more time together, but this was the season of life. And he, traveled some for work and was gone a lot, but my focus was the kids.

His focus was his job. All was well. Or so I thought. 

The Night Everything Changed

Amanda Quick: And then one night he doesn't come home. And, like I said, he works a lot, and he didn't always respond. And at first I didn't think much of it. And I went to bed. And then I couldn't find him at 2 o'clock in the morning. And I couldn't find him at 5 o'clock in the morning.

He wasn't home. I'd been waking to feed the baby, essentially. And, at this point, I'm like, he's never done this before. This is crazy. And I call the hospitals. I can't exactly hop in the car. I've got three sleeping children in the house. And eventually I call non emergency dispatch at 5 o'clock in the morning, and I'm like, it's not been 24 hours, I don't think I can report him missing, but I don't know what else to do.

And they say, well, to the jail, see if he's there, and call us back if he's not, we'll help. Okay, I'll call you right back. 

Shock and Denial

Amanda Quick: Turns out, the jail had him. The arrest was for attempted human trafficking with a 250, 000 bond. I about dropped the phone.

What? Like, nuts? is there a mistake? is he actually dead in a ditch? Like, that's where my brain went.

This was so far outside of the realm of possibility in my mind that I didn't believe it. And yet at the same time, I gotta figure this out. I gotta help. my instinct was to Protect my family. My instinct was to support my husband because this was not him. So there's something wrong and it's my role to help and step in 

I did not think there was any possibility that he was a dangerous person. So fast forward, I did bail him out. We thankfully had access to some investment funds through his job.

And so I was able to do so. When he got out of jail, I then was able to say like, what the hell happened? Because, you know, clearly it was actually him, not an, it wasn't a mistake. And his story was that he had been soliciting adults, his entire adult life, and that when they offered children, he thought it wasn't real, but he had to make sure, so he could report it.

And I did not even have an emotional response. I was in such a state of shock that I'm like trying to gather this data that he's basically, he's admitting to cheating on me our entire marriage, but he's so nonchalant about it. He's so just like, Oh, that's been going on since forever. Like, whatever. 

The point is they're upset with me because I didn't do it and I didn't do anything wrong. He's playing the victim in this situation and I'm trying to hold it together. If he's telling the truth, then obviously, like, yeah, okay, we'll deal with that later.

We have to get through this first thing. 

Trauma Bond and Manipulation

Amanda Quick: What I didn't understand at the time is how much I had been, shut down our entire marriage and how much I didn't even have my own sense of self at that point in time. I didn't understand how I'd actually been in a lot of ways, manipulated and gaslit the entire time.

So I just believe him because that's the only thing I know to do. That's the operating procedure I have is that he wouldn't be lying to me. He's admitting to these horrible things. So clearly he's telling the truth. Right. And I tried desperately to believe this version of events, because this is the only thing that's going to get me through.

This whole proceeding and everything else going on. And so I choose to believe him. I choose to support him through the criminal proceedings. I choose to advocate for supervised visitation with the kids because my kids are now asking where daddy is. You know, then there's articles in the paper, like this is full on everybody knows, and I'm isolating, I'm deeply isolating because.

I'm very ashamed. I feel like somebody painted a red A on my door because my name is in the paper and all of these things are going on. And I'm terrified. And the only person who feels safe to talk to, to feel safe to unpack this with, is actually my husband. And this is a part I held a lot of shame around for a very long time.

And it prevented me from speaking out for such a long time. But I think it's a really important Part of the trauma experience to talk about is I actually developed a trauma bond with him. And even though he's the one who caused this, he was the only safe person who understood what was happening.

He was the only person I could go to. And when I had already been so isolated, he was everything to me at that point in time. And keeping our family unit together was the most important thing I could even. Conceptualized at the time we actually almost went through another honeymoon period because he wasn't allowed to be around the kids.

And so that's meant he wasn't allowed to be around me unless I left them somewhere. So it was like almost forbidden thing. And so not only was I isolated from everybody else, but all I wanted was to deepen my connection and he was love bombing the crap out of me. And so all of a sudden, this was the relationship that I always wanted because he was showing up.

He'd lost his job. So we were his only focus. And I had this idea that, okay, this was gonna reignite us, or something. this was the family I wanted, my kids need their dad, so everybody's gonna, get better, and people overcome infidelity all the time, right?

These are the stories I'm telling myself because he's telling me and the trauma bond became so deep that he was on the phone with me like almost 24 7. Like he would just be in the background. And so that meant that my thoughts were not my own. Because every thought I would have, he was right there to respond and to be there.

And he would hear the kids, I felt like I was trying to include him and with the kids in the background and all these things. But really he was trying to make sure that. There was no way that I could break free, because if I had a feeling of emotion, he would show up with flowers and apologies and love notes and all the things.

I wasn't even allowed to actually process the feelings. It was, no, no, I'm different now and it's going to be better now. the next thing that happens is he gets offered a plea deal. 

Legal Battles and Custody Struggles

Amanda Quick: Now, most people are pretty shocked that somebody who shows up with intent to purchase children would get offered a plea deal, but the vast majority of these cases in the United States, at least get pled out.

And so he was offered a plea deal, no jail time. And so of course he's like, I have to take it. Except in his story that he tells me, he actually claims there's evidence to prove that he's innocent because he, you know, searched ADA report these things. And he had like all of this. This email ready to send and all these like supposed things that were going to show that he had a different intent, but according to him, the lawyers were like, there's no way that's going to work, 

there's more here, and yet, I don't see the, you know, the family doesn't see the case file. Like, I don't get any of the information that the police have, because they're trying to protect their case. All I have is what he's telling me. And so he's like, I can't risk it. Like, they're saying, I don't have to go to jail.

I have to go through this treatment program. I'm going to be on the sex offender registry. But in a lot of ways he gets off like scot free by just pleading guilty. So he pleads guilty in January of 2017 to attempted solicitation of a minor. So it's a lesser felony, still a felony. And I'm like, okay, we got through this.

Now we got to put our life back together. That's what I'm doing in my mind. He's going to figure out how to get income again, because he'd lost his job. maybe we'll go to counseling. Maybe we'll try to figure out how to process, like now we can deal with the things is what I'm thinking.

I started to realize that his mental health is deteriorating and I didn't understand what was going on. Generally when somebody gets exposed in that way, it actually takes them off the deep end even further. And he couldn't focus, he couldn't do anything.

All he could do was like basic housework. And I realized like I can't depend on this man for financial stability anymore. He's not capable. My youngest is now two. But dad was home because when he pled guilty, was able to move back into the house because the constitutional rights of parent does not, he didn't lose despite a felony sex offense.

And that's the other thing people don't realize, is those things are disconnected. And unless the child was, his child was his victim, he retains his complete constitutional rights of parent, which includes unsupervised access to his biological children. So within sex offender probation, he wasn't allowed to be around other children.

He wasn't allowed to go to schools. Like all of those restrictions were true, but his own children were an exception. Yeah. Which, you know, again, trauma bond world, I'm grateful for. Like, we're gonna heal as a family. So he moves back into the house, I go to work, because I realize I have to.

it's gonna take me some time to ever make enough to actually support all of us, but I've been six years unemployed, like, I gotta start somewhere. 50 percent less than he had been making, but We're less in the hole, right? I'll work up to it. I'm not going to be dependent on him.

But this going back to work period of time was actually freeing for me because for the first time in almost a year now, my thoughts are my own for eight hours a day. He's not allowed to be in my ear while I'm at work. And so I start to kind of, Things start to come to the surface, and I push them down and they start to come to the surface, but I'm trying to navigate this new world because I am terrified that my job ever figures out what's at home.

I don't want my worlds to connect, but I also am starting to realize my job is actually my safe place, not my house. And the feelings are bubbling up and I can't keep pushing them down anymore, Every time he initiates intimacy, all I can hear is, this is what he did with them, that's how he looked at them, that's what he wanted from them.

And I couldn't push that down. I couldn't push that away. And the only thing that worked was a half a bottle of wine as soon as I got home. And so I went down that path for a very short period of time. It was probably a month or two. And I realized like, this is not okay. I'm not okay.

I'm trying to disassociate. I'm trying to pretend that I'm fine and pretend that my marriage is okay, because I so desperately tried to save it, but I'm not okay. And what I find myself is being pulled towards. A coworker. I'm looking for my next escape. I'm looking for somebody else who doesn't have these ghosts.

And I also decide I'm not going to cheat on my husband without being honest because that sucked. I knew what that felt like. So I told him that I was not okay. And I was interested in exploring a relationship with somebody else. And so I needed to do something different.

And For about a day he tried to convince me otherwise and then he flipped. And then he was just kinda, okay, you do you, but I'll stay in the house and we'll be weird normal. Pulling at all of my, I don't want to rip the kid's lives apart, I don't want them going back and forth, et cetera, et cetera.

He's trying to keep his handle on me and just saying, I'll just move into a different bedroom. You go do what you need to do. So I agree, because I don't exactly want to change the kid's world very much. And I go off and. Start to date my co worker, which was actually positive in a lot of ways because I found my joy.

I found my spark I found fun again because I've been wife and mom and dealing with all of these things I didn't know how to be me and I got to find me a little bit in that but it was really messy I was dating my co worker living with my husband who was a felony sex offender with my three kids pretty messy And then I got promoted at work.

I, broke up with him and I was like, I got to deal with my marriage. I got to deal with my life. I got to figure this out. My husband thinks we're going to get back together. no, not happening. And then he files for divorce because he thinks he's going to scare me into coming back.

He thinks that I'm going to freak out about this. I'm not impacting the kids and I'm going to come back to him, except I'm just angry. I'm seeing red because he's now also trying to remove me from the house. He's now like, I'm the opposition in a lot of ways because he's trying to prove that he's the primary parent as a felony sex offender.

He's trying to prove that he's the good guy and I'm the one who did wrong. And he's doing this thing called false equivalence where you went and dated. So we're the same. We're equal now. The amount of manipulation that was repeating in my head, I remember having conversations with my lawyers and he would try to tell me that I was abandoning my children because I went back to work and it broke my heart to have to leave them for eight hours a day when I had been full time stay at home parent.

And so was pulling at all of my insecurities knowing that it would get to me and so my lawyer's like, Amanda, no judge is gonna say that you abandoned your kids because you took a job to provide for the family, like, that is insanity. But that's the kind of stories that I was believing about myself. I believed that maybe he was right, and I was the bad guy, because I blamed myself for the whole damn thing in the first place, like, I had some deep belief that his problems were my problems and I had some part to play in them.

And so as we've now gone into high conflict separation time, but now the kids are going back and forth and their behavior starts to get worse. And now we have parental alienation happening because he's telling the kids that mommy left.

Mommy's the one who did this. And they're becoming angry with me and violent with me. And they go to daddy's house and they play video games and get hyped up on sugar. And then they come to my house and they go through withdrawals. And so there's this huge disparity of the way that, houses operate, the boundaries.

And I'm just desperately trying to hold it together. We get psychological evaluations done, personality disorders get diagnosed for him. I find out I'm normal, which is a huge relief. But also, you know, That's just the thing about these type of relationships is. I thought I was the crazy person.

Like, that's what he had been feeding me, is that I was nuts. And so I got that validation. But I still felt like, well, okay, he's got some personality disorders, and he's clearly an asshole. Like, that's, that's clear. But I still felt like that was my problem, not their problem. Their kids deserve their father.

We, as grown ups, need to figure out how to do this. I didn't know how to put this together. I still wanted my marriage. I still wanted my family, and this was all happening, and I had these beliefs about my kid needing both parents, but this didn't feel right, and I didn't know what to do.

And, you know, a lot of people will look at my story and feel like the arrest was, This big event. And that was true, but it wasn't my rock bottom yet. Because as the parental alienation gets worse, and as my kid's behavior gets worse, and I'm seeing all of the, behavior, for what it is, the bottom drops out again for me.

Because the next thing that happens is my middle son starts to exhibit signs of being groomed. And not just groomed in a mommy is bad sort of way, but groomed in a very unsettling way. I'm not sure if it's okay to go into the explicit details here on this podcast, but, basically the things that came out of his mouth stood my hairs on end.

And I went, what the ever loving heck did my son just say? Except I, you can't respond in a, that's bad, or you did wrong or anything like that. It was just okay. And I call my lawyers and all the people to make new accusations on a high conflict divorce. 

And yet, at the same time, when big safety issues come up, you also do have to respond. And so there's a very delicate balance here. And my lawyers were being very cautious about making new allegations. And at the same time, I'm being like, hit with all of this realization that, you know, This is the man who tried to purchase an 11 and 14 year old.

And my kids are now showing me that they are being exposed to things that are inappropriate and that the boundaries of grooming are moving. And that's the thing about grooming. It's not that the thing that they're doing is legal or bad or wrong. It's that the boundaries keep moving with an intent to keep moving those boundaries.

And that's what a lot of times this is. it's about how close can we get to the line until we can move the line. And I felt it in my body. I felt the deviance the nastiness in my body. And at the same time, like none of the actual things. were considered illegal or bad or wrong, but I could feel that it was not okay and that those lines were moving.

And so eventually the kid's therapist said, you know, ask him to show you what this game looks like. And it was as bad as I thought in my head. And then she said, as a mandatory reporter, I would report this. And so that was enough for my lawyers. And I reported child protective services and they.

Unfortunately, we're useless. They terrified my son. He hid under the kitchen table as they were trying to interview him because he said, Oh, we don't do that anymore. Case dropped. And I'm like, are you kidding me? This man is a felony sex offender, and my son is showing signs of being unsafe in his care, and you don't care?

Because the thing about this system is they are not actually protective. They are only punitive if something has already happened that you can prove. And that makes my blood boil, because As a mom, we do everything in our power to protect our kids. Like my mom instincts wanted to pack my kids in the car and drive to Canada.

Like that is what I wanted to do, but that would be actually kidnapping. I would be the one to be punished in a sense for kidnapping my children to keep them safe. It's crazy making. And so I'm still having to pass over my kids four times a week to this man, as all this is happening. So I'm exhibiting signs of PTSD.

I'm trying to be in therapy. I'm trying to do EMDR. I'm trying to calm my nervous system. I'm not okay. And yet I'm like, who would be okay in this situation? 

Rock Bottom and Seeking Help

Amanda Quick: And this is my rock bottom. Because my lawyers and everybody is telling me that the statutes and the way that the court law is written, that he is basically going to get 50 50 until something bad enough that I can prove happens.

And I'm like, you're going to wait until my kids are molested, and I can prove it? It's, it's crazy making. And, I mean, the transfer between children has turned into almost this, like, hostage negotiation situation, because every time any of the activities change, he wants to negotiate. He wants to, everything he can do to keep his manipulation tactics in me.

And the kids almost, feel like pawns. And I'm trying desperately to keep their structure. the same so that they can be as best as they can be because all of the specialists were telling me the more they can have a predictable world, the better they are, and the more that gets changed around, the more challenging it is.

And, you know, there's all kinds of, symptoms that were coming out, especially in my middle son, but I could tell it was challenging for everybody. And they were the worst with me in a lot of ways, because I was actually their safe thing. And this is something my mom had to remind me of that I taught her is that a lot of times our kids, in some ways, you know, they're fine at school and they come home and they lose their crap.

And it's because we're actually safe. They don't have to mask around us. They don't have to pretend around us. And so, even though it was hard to be the ones they were dumping on, it's actually because I was the safe person for them. And I could remind myself of that, as hard as it was. And so, my rock bottom here is, I don't, I'm doing the things.

I've hired the people. What the hell am I going to do next? And it was actually my counselor, my like mental health therapist that I'm going to see on a regular basis for everything going on, who stops me as I'm leaving her room. 

A Turning Point

Amanda Quick: And she says, you know, Amanda, have you ever thought about seeing a psychic?

It's like, what? Like a fortune teller? Are you crazy? Like, that's where my mind went. Huh? No. Do you know a real one? Cause I don't know that I believe that's a thing. And she says, no, I do. And I'm like, screw it. I will try. Because, what else am I gonna do?

The lawyers aren't doing anything. And so I go see this lady, and, you know, just crystals and deities and all these things, and I'm like, okay. I'm gonna keep an open mind, because clearly there's something here. And she starts telling me about her gifts, and the way that she sees angels, and all of these things, she starts telling me about this past life of mine, where, it was 500 years ago, and, you know, he was a drunk and violent, but things were okay, until the kids came.

And then she starts telling me about how I'm trying to protect, you know, the kids from him and how I can't leave because all these reasons. It's like, she's in my head. Like she's repeating all of the stories about why I couldn't separate and all of the stories about why the kids needed all these things.

And I'm like, okay, I'm listening. And then she tells me in that life, what ended up happening is he beat me to death in front of the kids. And my whole body has this reaction. And she says, you're that fear that you're feeling right now.

That's the fear you have to get ahold of because he didn't laid a hand on me in this life. He was just very manipulative. And I was terrified of him. he was stalking me. He would walk up and down the street, in front of my house, and I was absolutely terrified of what might happen, even though there was no example of what that would be.

My body was afraid. You have to get a hold of that fear. You have to realize this isn't back then. You can own property. You can do all these things. None of those stories are even true anymore. I said, okay, well I've been doing those things. She said, the reason you're sitting in this chair, the reason your angels created this session and you are here today, is because you haven't chosen.

And I don't know if it's because, of everything that happened, but, for whatever reason, the way that she said this to me, I got. And she said, you haven't chosen to be done with him in this lifetime or any other. And that was, the first time that I really saw myself clearly. Because I realized she wasn't wrong.

I wanted my marriage back. I wanted my relationship, I wanted my family, I didn't want any of this! I still wanted to believe there was some other explanation or that my instincts were wrong. Like, that's what I wanted to believe. I wanted to believe there was still healing on the other end or that in some future universe.

My family could be back together. and I saw that because I was holding that in a sense that I actually hadn't chosen, I was doing all the things I was hiring all the people, but I hadn't in myself said, I'm done. And I said, okay, I'm done. And she says, you got to say it like you mean it.

 And so I stood up, I'm fucking done. I'm done. She says, okay, I can help you now. And she started explaining to me that. Everybody knows somebody, and there's so many, both in real life and on the other side, energies that are trying to help me. But until I chose that, they couldn't actually do anything. and I had to stop hiding.

I had to stop not wanting people to know it was happening, because I needed to ask for help in more places. And I needed to follow more of these paths. And she believed he had access to pornography, and that would open his case, because that would be against probation, if I could prove it. But that I had to just 

keep going down this path and fully embodying this, I'm done with him in this lifetime, in all lifetimes. And I left that session, and I felt like a completely different person in that moment. Everything that I had believed and known to be true had been changed.

Because any part of me that was still holding onto this, well maybe I'm wrong, or maybe things are different, was gone. I, Swear to God, the six weeks is the only time I had to, at that point, until my final divorce hearing. And everything changed in that six weeks. The same day I left, a co worker said, you know, I know somebody.

I got Homeland Security back involved, I got the arresting officer's contact information. The district attorney unsealed the case file for me because it remained sealed with identifying information, but they can redact it and release it to the public.

It is technically public record. And so for the first time in four years, I actually got the details of what happened. And I just started getting evidence after evidence after evidence. I started recording the conversations with my kids, which led to new disclosures. I read them books about keeping private parts private, which led to new disclosures.

I had all of this evidence stacking up. And we tried to file motions to remove access, and they didn't go anywhere. And I had to come back to myself, and instead of saying, Oh, it's not meant to be, no, I need more evidence. This is supporting what I'm creating. 

Relentless Pursuit for Justice

Amanda Quick: This is for me. I just have to keep going. I have to believe that This is all happening so that we actually can come out this on the other side the way we need to.

I called everybody who popped into my head. And I would say, who do you know? And everything anybody thought to do, I did. I emailed probation, I went up the ladder, I, I mean, I went everywhere. And the vast majority didn't. But the ones that did were the things that changed the outcome of my case.

And I went to court six weeks after that appointment with a three inch binder full of things. and he had like a couple pieces of paper. We had gotten a new evaluation done. We had new personality disorders diagnosed. Like, there was so much evidence to show that Things were going down a very, very dangerous path, and that his personality disorders, his addictive behaviors, in a sense, would almost mean that he didn't even know what he was doing, and yet what he was doing was very, very unsafe.

Facing the Courtroom Battle

Amanda Quick: And so we went to court, and I faced him for the first time. It was such a very different energy. I told my truth, and I told the judge what was coming through the kids, the reason that I was there, and the reason I believed what I believed. I came across. As a protective parent, not one who was trying to alienate, but very much, concerned, and only now learning a lot of these things.

the judge was appalled by some of his behaviors, and ordered him immediately to not sleep with the children anymore, and removed overnight, very quickly, and the final order came through. Very early March 3rd, 2020, the final order gave him one last chance, which people are also shocked about. But again, we've gotta deal with the court statutes here.

One last chance to do a of things, to receive new therapists, to have new disclosures, protections in place so that we can make sure that the kids are safe if he does these things, he can have some time with them. If he doesn't do these things, the outcome will only be supervised visitation, which is what we were advocating for.

she's leaving the choice essentially to him. 

A Mother's Relief and Realization

Amanda Quick: And at the moment I'm relieved because overnights are removed, there's some things in place. But I also know that he's incapable, not just unwilling. And that if it were me and somebody says, these are the things you need to do to your kids, I would have done them the first day, 

And so I breathed a sigh of relief and I knew that we had, another six weeks to kind of go through. 

The Unexpected Turn of Events

Amanda Quick: And obviously we all know what happened in the mid March of 2020 and nobody was expecting that. And so the world changed. And they were not quarantined with him, and I don't know if it helped or hurt, but he didn't do anything on that list.

And so in April of 2020, he actually cancelled his last visit with them, and he did not ever file a certificate of compliance to say he did the things. And he never once set up supervised visitation. The last phone call he made was on April of 2020, and that was the last time we heard from him. And so, that's my big story.

Reflecting on Trauma and Healing

Amanda Quick: And when I talk about trauma, That's what I'm talking about is the experiences that I went through that impacted me physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, and that went through my kids and how that impacted all of us. And my journey since then has been to seek and understand trauma on all of those levels and how we overcome and process.

Okay, let's unpack this. So everybody who has, I'm gonna have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of this for cussing. My apologies. Honestly, I've been thinking about this lately, like, with movie rating, sometimes the cuss word needs to be in there, or that thing needs to be in there, because the content is for an older audience to begin with, but it needs to be placed there.

Autumn Carter: So, there are people who are going to be triggered by this, and I expected to be triggered by this, which part of me is, but it's like a little trigger. But I felt so much healing, and I felt so like, this is why my mom did this. This is why she turned to alcohol more and pot more. Okay, but also she allowed men in so that wasn't helpful because I needed the safe space, but I didn't have it.

And with the grooming, it's like, okay, now I realize why I chose slow with my dad because that the known felt safer than all the unknown that she was bringing in. I'm going to have to do some inner child work later. Okay, got that. Let's unpack this more. 

Unpacking the Emotional Journey

Autumn Carter: So, for all of you that feel like you don't have the time, just listen for the next couple minutes and come back to this, because we need to unpack this. We don't want to leave you there.

Let's start with How much of this there can be a lot of shame and we can go Brene Brown here and how much she in sharing her shame. was releasing it. that is the thing. It's that whole cloak thing, right? once you release it. It kind of goes away, 

last night we did an escape room, where we had to find this witch, and it kind of reminds me of that, just think of the Halloween movies, as soon as you are releasing that cloak, it's just poof, gone. But, let's go into human nature for a second here. And just how much she was following human nature.

And what she was needing to do was feel safe and secure. And she was grappling at any piece that she could for that. And there are so many people that I've worked with that have been here, whether I've worked with them professionally or in a friendship way 

the narcissism and the personality disorder and stuff like that. But because I have experience with that, thank you, family. And thankfully, I'm not seeing that with my kids. Help me unpack this. You've gone deeper. Into trauma and the natural responses So let's go into that part of it It was kind of like a ladder that you went through to get out and let's talk about how that's common. 

Recognizing Red Flags in Relationships

Autumn Carter: Let's talk about Some of the red flags and the green flags that are with that, let's get into that part of it.

Amanda Quick: Yeah. And so, I mean, obviously hindsight, right?

I can find so many of the red flags, hindsight. I first want to say, like, be gracious with yourself because you can only see what you can see when you can see it. And we all make the best decisions that we can with the information we have at the time. And this is a real, real hard one because should I have left him in jail?

Yes, absolutely. I should have, but hindsight, that was not the operating procedure I had. That was not the identity I held for myself. And more than even. Acknowledging somebody else's crap, it actually always is a reflection back to ourselves and this identity that we are desperately trying to hold on to because that is where we have created our safety, to your point.

And so it's really unraveling this version of self in a lot of ways. And so I met him when I was 19 years old. So, I was very young, he was nine years older, so I was very attracted to his intelligence and his stability and all these things. However, he was actually married when I met him, and he started the grooming process then, and so I was the other woman for a year.

As a 19 year old, very naive, I was also, in my teenage years, very rebellious and promiscuous, and he romanticized that. He loved the idea of teenage me doing naughty things, wanted pictures and all the things, like, big red flags, obviously, right? So I had to acknowledge that version of myself.

I had to acknowledge that kind of a shadow in me that actually attracted this person in the first place. And I recognized that I saw myself as different because this was real or something and his other marriage, you know, was falling apart and all of the stories I told myself in the beginning were obviously huge red flags.

Other red flags in early relationship is he actually did not want a closed relationship. He wanted other people to join the intimacy. He wanted specifically to watch other people with me. So big, huge red flags. I was very uncomfortable with it. And to which he made me feel guilty because I used to do those things.

Why wouldn't I do those things with him? Right. So he's pulling it, all of these things to try to make me feel like I'm wrong. I'm crazy. these are huge things that started in the very beginning to. Take away my sense of identity, my sense of who I am, my sense of my rights and wrong in the very beginning.

When I first got pregnant with my oldest, which was not on purpose, I was 22 years old. I was very young. And his response to me being pregnant was to shut down and not speak to me for two weeks because he couldn't deal. Another huge red flag, right? 

The Power of Choice and Self-Accountability

Autumn Carter: So if you were going back and you're stuck in each of these moments, What options can there be? Because I really like, a friend recommended a movie, so I watched it, and it's called The Dead Poets Society. And there's this part in there where Robin Williams is a teacher. And he's talking to, I don't remember his name, but the show House, House's best friend, the other doctor, it was a kid in there, but he basically said, you're not as stuck as you think you are.

And that was just like, everybody needs to hear the end of the movie. So a hundred percent. 

Amanda Quick: And I felt so stuck, right? I'm now pregnant. we bought a house together. So I was financially all these things that felt impossible to detangle, were not actually impossible.

And I think for me, What I did not understand is when somebody was questioning my reality and my truth, that red flag right there was actually highlighting all of the things that happened in my childhood. being around men who tell me they know better. And who are more right, and more logical, and make me feel like the stupid one was actually my 

pattern with my father playing out in my relationships. Because my dad was physically abusive to my mom. And very mentally and emotionally manipulated because of his trauma. But the reaction to it was to always over explain myself. To always forgive immediately. And I felt like I would be so frustrated with him and then he would show back up and it would all dissolve.

Because I wasn't allowed to have those feelings. And what I would say to my younger self is, those feelings are valid, these things are wrong, and you do have choices. And you are actively choosing to stay, instead of feeling like you're actually stuck and you're not making a choice. That is a choice. And you need to actually be accountable to the choice that you're making and to make it with your eyes open instead of telling yourself that there's nothing else you can do.

Autumn Carter: But you're pregnant. You have a baby. 

Amanda Quick: Yeah, you're pregnant and you have a baby. You're still not done. There are still choices. Whether it is to not have the baby, whether it's to leave and do it on your own, there are always choices. And it feels like there are not choices.

Absolutely. You feel so stuck, The little voice inside of you needs to get louder, and if you shut it off, the external circumstances are going to make it louder, eventually. But if you can listen to it, that little voice can also help you find where actually is safe, because everything around you doesn't feel safe right now, and all you're trying to do is hold on to what you think is safe, because it's known.

But you actually have, especially as a new mom, I feel like our intuition gets activated in a different way when we become pregnant. And we can use it. And so when you think about your child, instead of thinking about, I don't have a choice because what are you modeling for this new child?

What relationship are you showing them is normal? What environment do you actually want them to be in? really think about it from that perspective and what you would tell your child. That's what you need to tell yourself. 

Autumn Carter: Ah, that's what I say about self care. So I love having it in a different way.

I really love where you said that the external circumstances will bring it out. If you are turning off that voice, eventually, that's huge. 

So, it's really realizing that. I know it used to be at least, very much in, I don't want to call it religions actually because there's several religions that will do that.

Very much the old way of thinking is that you have to get married if you're pregnant or you have to stay because there's a baby or, you know, those types of things. I have a friend, and it did not turn out well doing this, she said that she was raped and that she was pregnant, and they're like, well, you have to marry him.

Amanda Quick: You need to marry somebody that violated you and now have your child have a relationship with the person who violated you. 

Autumn Carter: And what are you exposing that child to? 

Amanda Quick: Exactly. And, you know, oh, it's not that bad, or he's not that bad, right? That, all the ways we gaslight ourselves. To keep that voice quiet so that we don't have to actually face it, and we don't have to face the part of ourselves that is terrified because of all of the reasons, as a child, we were terrified.

Autumn Carter: He's not that bad, excuse you, were you the one there with the closed door? No you weren't, then shut up. Right, right. Okay, so we talked about that. And we talked about you just trying to get that steady ground again. I'm thinking earthquake here, steady ground.

And wow, that you didn't have access to actually know what was happening. And we look in the news and we see these people or, you know, Hollywood or however you want to think of it. These people who are saying no, that couldn't have happened. Those family members where it's like, it's super obvious. How are you?

But we have this safety thrust. And once we get there, we end up in denial because it's like, we can't, nothing else is convenient. It's called cognitive dissonance. 

Amanda Quick: Yeah, it's called cognitive dissonance. It's essentially where your world, the bubble of reality that you're living in is comprised of identities and understandings.

And when something happens that is so far outside of your bubble of understanding of possibilities, it's basically like if an alien spaceship landed in the earth, the people who don't believe in aliens would think it was a hoax because it's just, it is too far outside of their understanding of how the world works.

And so. It doesn't, it's not real, right? Fake news, whatever. That's how it feels in our systems when something so far outside of what we know to be true, it's just not possible. And so we continue to hold on because that reality That's the last time we felt safe and understood our world. That identity of who we are there is so important to hold on to when this is all happening.

That we almost deepen this, no, I know this is true, and I believe it, and I'm putting my stake in the sand. And that's where the trauma bonds get developed, because We're both trying to hold on. He was trying to hold on to this identity that he was a good guy and a good father. And I'm trying to hold on to, I would have only chosen a good guy and a good father.

And so we're both holding onto this while all this stuff is happening and refused to look at it. And it is actually very natural and normal to be in that position. And I think we have to give ourselves some grace there because I'd beat myself up for a very long time. How did I not know? How did I not see it?

Yes, it's true, there were some parts of me that felt little things along the way, but the worst thing I thought ever would have happened is maybe he would have cheated on me. Maybe. But that didn't make sense because of the stories he told me. He told me I was the fourth person he had ever been with, and I was wife number three.

Well, I was only the fourth person that he didn't pay. And I didn't know that. it was not even in my realm of possibilities. So he's being truthful 

Autumn Carter: in his head. 

Amanda Quick: That's the thing about the, whether you call them narcissists or, you know, people that have this pattern of manipulation, they believe their bullshit. They believe the stories they're telling you. And so they feel true. 

Autumn Carter: So what is your advice for people who are that disconnected from themselves? 

Reconnecting with Yourself

Amanda Quick: So, if you're in a place where you don't know what's up and down and sideways and backwards and you don't know what's true, you gotta get back reconnected to yourself. 

I separated myself, first of all, from The influence, right? I separated myself little by little and I started to only be in my own energy. That is really, really important to actually be just with yourself. And that's probably sometimes the hardest step because that is, that's breaking the bond in a sense.

Autumn Carter: Scary. 

Amanda Quick: It's terrifying. 

Autumn Carter: Still the unknown of like, well, I don't know how much is me and how much is them. 

Amanda Quick: Yes, and it felt so weird to not have him in my head. Because I had the justification of job to myself, I allowed it. And so you need to find some way to be a way, even for periods of time, to be centered in yourself.

And as you start to do that, you also need to find some ways to enjoy parts of yourself again. And like, find, oh right, I liked doing those things. I liked having fun. I liked going on road trips. I liked, you know, Going out and eating and going to music shows and all the things that we went and did, right?

I liked those things, but I couldn't find joy and fun and play in this, you know, connected place. And so there's getting reconnected in a sense to my body. 

Autumn Carter: She's offering you this path, even if you haven't been through anything near what she has, be aware that this is out there, so you can be the support. This is the reason why you should be listening.

But she is offering you something, a huge gift. No matter where you are at on this journey in life. You need to spend time with yourself. You need to be meditating. You need to separate all the other voices out there. Just realize that you are so much bigger and greater than this body that you've been given and how amazing of feeling that is and Know that you are, you have parts of yourself, but who you are separate from all those parts, separate from being a mother, separate from being a wife.

Amanda Quick: Yeah. So getting separate from it, reconnecting yourself. So the other thing I did that I didn't share before is I actually started running. 

somebody had gifted me a treadmill and I had three young kids. Like there was no working out. There was no anything for myself, but after I put them to bed, I would get on that treadmill every night. I ended up realizing that that was the only thing that turned my brain off. And so as I moved my body, I started being able to process and move the energy and the emotions.

I was reconnecting back to my physical self and I was moving the energy that was so stuck. And so this concept of feeling like there's nothing you can do, this stuck thing, it's because you haven't moved. And so separating myself, moving that energy, having fun, finding pieces of me again, started to allow those instincts to get louder and those voices to get louder.

And it started to actually feel the things that wouldn't shut up in my head in a sense about like, this isn't okay, this isn't right. Those voices got louder instead of everything trying to shut them off. And so, the more that I did that, and the more that I then followed that voice, the more I was able to uncover and the more I was able to move.

And, I still felt stuck and I couldn't do anything. But the last piece, once you've like, okay, I feel how bad this is and how wrong it is, is to actually choose. 

Autumn Carter: You get out of the flight, and you get out of the freeze. Yes! And you got out of the fear, now it's the fighting. 

Amanda Quick: It's not really fighting the other person. It's facing the parts of you that have been so attached to this old version. And it's acknowledging them. And it's saying, I see you. I see what we've done. And I'm not going to sit in the shame and the judgment and the guilt of it.

I'm going to see it for what it is. And I'm going to now make a new choice. Because it really can change in an instant. It really can. But it takes radical accountability and honesty. And we are the worst at gaslighting and lying to ourselves, because it keeps us back stuck in this place. But if we are willing to face those deeper shadow parts of ourselves, and really be honest, we can then see the choice that we had been making.

I see what I'm doing. I see exactly how I've been participating and continuing this pattern. I am not responsible for his choices, but I am responsible for my choice to stay connected to this choice. 

Autumn Carter: we have that fear of disconnecting from a choice when it's no longer serving us, whether big or small 

That's where I'm going. And just, there's times where we're like, well, we already committed. So we're going to. Commit even more and it's like you had a chance to cut ties at this point 

Amanda Quick: Exactly and you know I think it was my mom who actually said something like you can choose again Like just because you chose once doesn't mean you are stuck in that same choice forever and We believe we are, but we're not.

And all of the societal stories of, well I committed marriage wise, or I have a baby forever, push those out. If your body is saying it is ready to make a new choice, your body is ready to evolve past this pattern you've been repeating. 

Autumn Carter: And explain this, I understand it, but for those people who are like, what are they talking about?

a lot of us have heard of, because it was a huge hit, is the body keeps a score. So explain this a little bit. 

Amanda Quick: Yeah, So, something happens, and you have an emotional response, but you don't like the emotional response, so you don't actually allow it to come out.

You shove it down, right? I'm not gonna cry, I'm not gonna feel, I'm gonna keep moving. That was my trauma response. Because I'm amazing at a crisis, because I compartmentalize like nobody's business. But what happens is I'm compartmentalizing it, and I'm shoving it into my body, and I tell myself, I'll look at that later, but I never do.

And I have so many versions of, I'll deal with this later, it. Compacts and stacks up. 

Autumn Carter: And it 

Amanda Quick: I believe that is the root cause of all illness and disease. I see it and how it manifests in people with the stress response gets so high it turns into the autoimmune condition, turns into the cancer, turns into all the etc.

Because our body absolutely keeps the score. It has all of the data and information of every experience we've ever lived. And that includes the childhood things that you haven't dealt with, and it includes the relationship things. And it all stacks on top of each other. When you've gone through especially big, hard childhoods, and you disconnect from your body, it's because you don't want to feel all that!

And so you leave your body, in a sense. And not that you're not driving the ship, but you're kind of doing it, really just maybe from the head. And the rest of it, you're not allowing you to feel. And I want to say to people that, that was your safety and protection mechanism.

Because as a child, it wasn't safe. And so you learned how to survive, and that is something that we are damn good at, is learning how to survive. But you can acknowledge that that way is no longer supporting you, because by keeping yourself disconnected, you're actually not able to receive all the information you need to get out of the situation.

You can't operate from the right set of instincts if you're only operating from previous survival patterns. 

Autumn Carter: Well, then let's talk about that because a lot of what keeps us stuck is the fear of the unknown.

The fear of it could be worse than I think or maybe it's not as bad and we stay in that stuck limbo. So when you had the records unsealed and you were able to just all of the things happened, right? You had the extra psychological evaluations at this point, you had all of the data that you were.

covering and then going to be bringing to court, and you said the judge was appalled. Tell me about that part when you no longer had the unknown. It's all known. It's all laid out on the table. You have your three inch thick binder. How was that for you and your body? 

Amanda Quick: For me, the level of certainty was so pointed.

It was like I was handed a mission and I had to listen to my body to follow. And because The stakes were so high, I knew that I had released all of the doubt whether he was actually a good guy or not.

I released all of the doubt of my participation in that. And I focused only on what does my body say is next, and how do I operate, and how do I show up in my most transparent, truthful way. Because what I actually desired was for the truth to be clear to the court system. It wasn't like I had some outcome mapped out and I want to go to this direction, but what I was holding was, I want the truth to be so obvious that what I am creating is safety and security for myself and my kids.

But I had to do that internally. I had to be that transparent and honest in order for my external reality to hold that because everything is a reflection. And so when I'm sitting in doubt and uncertainty, my. External reality is doubt and uncertainty.

But when I got hyper clear about what was true and what was not, and I got hyper clear about it's time for me to be radically honest, it's time for me to be radically accountable, everything in my external reality started to reflect that 

The Healing Power of Storytelling

Amanda Quick: Yes, there was nerves and so there was the continuing the self care and there was, I got to the point where I was running three miles a day and I did so for years because I needed that level of movement and so I continued all of the things to keep myself as clear and as moving as possible and I held true to this deep knowing that I was the person to get us out if I could listen to me.

And it wasn't the lawyers to save me. It wasn't the evaluators to save me. And even after my court case ended, my lawyer was like, you did this. You need to actually acknowledge that you did this. You created this outcome because they didn't, you know, they did their part. Yes. But instead of saying, help me, I don't know what to do.

Lawyers fix this. I said, this is what we're doing. Are you coming along? And I took back control of the ship in a sense. And in my TED Talk, my last line is, who's holding the pen? 

Autumn Carter: Us the name of the TED Talk again, 

Amanda Quick: The healing power of storytelling.

And it's taking back the pen of your life and acknowledging the power you have to write your own story. 

Autumn Carter: That was my favorite line in your talk, by the way, so I'm glad that we connected. This is basically you want to work with her.

She helps with trauma. So it's Amanda quick healing. com and it's quick with cute.

Yes. 

Amanda Quick: Q U I C K. 

Autumn Carter: Yep. Where else are you on social media? I didn't see you filled that out. 

Amanda Quick: You can find me on pretty much all the platforms. My goal is to help people feel safe in their lived experiences and in their stories and in their bodies so that they too can use their story if that's something that they're called to do. 

Autumn Carter: Thank you. This was amazing. Is there any last thing that you feel needs to tie this together?

Amanda Quick: Trust your damn self. That is really the root of all of it. 

Autumn Carter: This was amazing. AmandaQuickHealing. com. Thank you so much for this conversation. And if you don't feel like you're ready quite yet, listen to her TEDx talk.

It's amazing. And stay in her world because you never know when you're going to need to share her with somebody or you're going to need it for yourself. Definitely re listen to this if you ever feel yourself judging somebody who is stuck in a situation that is awful because she has given you the reasons why.

And these are her story, like, the framework of it is not unique. But the way that she stays stuck and her way out. This is, people are doing this every day. You have a chance too. All right. We love you guys and we both have to run. So thank you for being here and bye.

 Thank you for joining me on wellness and every season. Remember to take time to relax, heal and be present. Next week, we will be talking about. Discovering your calling your life purpose. I'm very excited for this one. Thanks for tuning into this week's episode. I'm your host, autumn Carter, a certified life and parenting coach. Dedicated to empowering individuals to rediscover their identity. 

Fine. Ballast Ms. Chaos, strengthened relationships and pursue their dreams. My goal is to help people thrive in every aspect of their life. I hope today's discussion inspired you and offered valuable insights. Stay engaged with our wellness community by signing up for my newsletter@wellnessandeveryseason.com. Slash free dash resources. 

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Legally, I am a certified parenting and life coach giving general advice. For the general public. So think of this more like a self-help book. This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. I am not a licensed therapist. So this podcast shouldn't be taken as a replacement for professional guidance from a doctor or therapist. If you want personal one-on-one coaching from a certified life coach. And parenting coach. Go to my website, wellness and every season.com. 

That's where you get personalized coaching from me for you. I'll see you in next week's episode. Bye.